I was wondering what the "Orthodox" view of the rapture was, and I saw your site.
Personally, I've been teaching the rapture for three years now at my website, and I know quite a bit of what the Bible says on the topic. In reading your page that is against the rapture, I have a few questions regarding http://www.orthodoxonline.com/leftbehind.htm
Question 1 You state:
"First of all we have to be suspicious something that no Church taught for 1,800 years suddenly emerges. That’s not enough of a reason to simply reject it, but it does mean that it should be viewed carefully."
I find the words of Daniel to be quite a contrast to that line of thinking:
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up
and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the
wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but
the wise shall understand.
Daniel 12 indicates that certain prophecies would only be understood
in the time of the end, because they would be closed up and sealed until
the time of the end. Therefore, it seems to me that a prophetic view
that is relatively recent in popularity might be the truth, if, in fact,
we are in
the time of the end. World events seem to indicate strongly that
we are in the time of the end, would you disagree with that assessment?
And thus, if anything, these verses are saying that old and historic prophetic
views of the time of the end, must, of necessity, be wrong, because such
doctrines were formed at a time when the words were closed up and sealed.
Therefore, how do you use tradition as a reason to reject a Bible doctrine, particularly when Jesus himself warned against how tradition potentially invalidated the Word of God?
Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Question 2. Another reason your pages give to reject the rapture is an argument from Rev 22's injunction against adding to, or taking away from, the Book. Wouldn't your reasoning process (reject the new in favor of tradition) be taking away from what is said in the book of Daniel that I mentioned?
Also, if the pretribulation rapture is true, as I believe it is, then if you deny it, then that's dangerous as well! If Jesus preached about the pretribulation rapture, and you state that Jesus did not preach about the rapture, then wouldn't you be denying the words of Jesus? The consequences seem extremely serious!
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will
I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Yet, paradoxically, your page seems to present the idea that this prophetic issue is not very important anyway.
"Rather than argue over what the end will look like..."
It seems to me as if you have rejected even investigating the topic. This is potentially quite serious as well!
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Also:
1 Thessalonians 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
Finally, you conclude that Satan benefits from this "rapture" teaching because it is a distraction. Oh, really? As I understand it, the pretribulation rapture doctrine teaches readiness for the Lord's return. See Matt 25:1-13 the wise and foolish virgins, and Rev 3 the Philadelphian & Laodician churches. As I see it, the wise virgins are ready for the rapture, and the faithful Philadelphian Church is promised the rapture, whereas the foolish virgins and Laodicains were the ones distracted and not ready for the Lord's return. And what distracted those found not ready? It sure wasn't the diligent study, or preaching, of the Word of God which was distracting them, it was the lure and temptations of the world! Additionally, both the foolish virgins and lukewarm Laodicians were both totally deceived, thinking they were in good standing with God, when, in reality, they were not. They obviously did not have a good understanding of when the Lord would return.
Perhaps you should ask yourself who benefits if the pretribulation rapture is true, and who benefits by the teaching against it?
The page also mentions that the rapture doctrine has a shaky scriptural foundation, on the basis of the fact that "arguments in favor or rapture can be called into question." As I see it, the truth will always be attacked, and the attacks on the truth will never be valid.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
I believe the definition of "heresy" is "false teaching". The
old view which may have simply said that "Christ is returning some day"
could not be considered a false teaching. However, today, now that
we know more, according to Daniel 11 & 12, I believe a position which
says "the
pretribulation rapture is false" is definitely a false teaching.
I have also examined the hundreds of arguments in favor of, or in rejection of, the pretribulation rapture, and I have never encountered a valid argument to reject it.
For example, you quoted Matt 24:9-13. These verses are not incompatable with the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture at all. I presume that since you believe these verses are incompatable with the rapture, I can only assume you don't understand the rapture doctrine. Today, many Christians face persecution and death, particularly in Islamic nations. After the pretribulation rapture, people will repent, becoming the "remnant of the seed of the woman" (Rev 12:17) and likewise be persecuted. There is nothing in the doctrine of the rapture that says Christians, either today during today's tribulation (John 16:33) or in the future tribulation (Matt 24:21) are immune from persecution.
And to assert that the tribulations we face today are a REASON that we, the same ones, must also endure the great tribulation is a rejection of the very definition of the great tribulation, in that it is unique!
There is surely a big difference between the tribulation that Christians have always endured (John 16:33), and the coming "great tribulation" which is defined as a time unlike any other. (Matt 24:21)
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
While we are discussing Matt 24, I will point out that verses
37-41 about how one will be taken while the other left, suggest that this
is at a time that is relatively peaceful, not like the great tribulation
at all. I agree these verses are heavily debated, and that others
attempt to use these
verses to show that we must endure tribulation as Noah endured the
flood.
However, the Bible tells us...Proverbs 26:9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouths of fools.
I can show many reasons why these verses about "taken and left" show the pretribulation rapture.
1. The word for taken is the same word for "received" in John
14:1-3, which is a key rapture verse.
2. The word for taken, granted, is also a word meaning "arrested".
Supposedly, this might mean that this word has a negative connotation and
therefore cannot mean raptured. However, the word for rapture, harpazo,
from 1 Thess 4, also is used to refer to an arrest, indicating that these
two words have very much in common.
3. Luke 17 is often quoted to show that those taken will be taken
to their deaths, because of the eagle/body parable. However, as early
as 1200 AD it was noted by Church scholars that this eagle/body parable
had at least two possible interpretations, as the body could well be Jesus
(John 6), and the eagles could well be believers, (Isaiah 40:31)
and therefore be indicative of believers meeting Jesus in the sky.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
I believe your arguments are invalid and unscriptural, and I therefore remain convinced that the pretribulation rapture is the truth.
I present this information to you as a testimony. It is up to you if you have ears to hear it.
Sincerely,
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